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♪ Somber music ♪

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This is Christopher Rothko.

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I'm Mark Rothko's son.

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And I have been told by many people

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who've known both of us

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that we had similar voices.

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♪

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Born Dvinsk, Latvia 1903.

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Migrated to Portland, Oregon 1913.

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♪ Somber music ♪

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"You don't know what it is

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to be a Jewish kid dressed in a suit

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from Dvinsk,

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not an American suit,

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traveling across America and not able

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"to speak English."

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♪

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"I was never able to forgive this transplantation

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to a land where I never felt

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entirely at home."

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♪ somber music ♪

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(clackety-clack of train)

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Like, she... she, like, realizes...

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(vehicles passing)

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Do you know this building?

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I know it's a landmark.

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(chuckles)

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Do you know that Mark Rothko

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was living here?

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No, I didn't.

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Do you know his name?

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No.

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I just know the people

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who live in there.

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They are kind of your friends or...

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Yeah, they look out for me.

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You know, they always look out for me.

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(horn honks)

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"When I was a younger man,

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art was a lonely thing.

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No galleries, no collectors,

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no critics...

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no money.

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Yet, it was a golden time,

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for then, we had nothing to lose,

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and a vision to gain.

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Today, it is not quite the same.

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It is a time of tons of verbiage,

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activity and consumption.

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Which condition is better for

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the world at large?

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I will not venture to discuss.

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But I do know

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that many who are driven to this life

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are desperately searching
for those pockets of silence

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"where they can root and grow."

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♪

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Everything about Rothko is about...

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changes, about voyages,

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about travels.

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You know, first of all,

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the geographical travels.

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He was born in Russia in 1907

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in the Russian Empire,

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in a city called Dvinsk,

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now Daugavpils now in Latvia.

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And at the age of 10,

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his family moved to the United States.

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Then he moved all over the United States,

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and he came back many times to Europe.

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So, basically, all those geographical

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travels...

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I mean, made him what he was.

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♪ Somber music ♪

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"I became a painter because I wanted

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to raise painting to the level

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of poignancy of music and poetry."

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"The struggle is beyond painting,

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not with painting."

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♪ piano music ♪

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(inaudible chatter)

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(train screeching)

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This is 77th Street.

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♪ Drone music ♪

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"Myths are the symbols of man's primitive fears

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and motivations,

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no matter in which land or what time,

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changing only in detail

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"never in substance."

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♪ drone music ♪

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"I sense a deep affinity.

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The same feeling,

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the same broad expanses of somber color."

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♪

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So, there is, in himself,

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you know, a tension,

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a tension between, uh, the new world

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in which he lives,

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the abstraction,

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the abstract art that he's going

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to be part of...

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but also these original myths

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from Europe that he originates from.

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And when he goes back to the Greeks

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and the Greek myths,

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and he starts painting again

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mythological.

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So, that's a way of grounding

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his own art in the...

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in the b... in the basics

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of European culture

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and European history.

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Uh, from then on, he's going to be able

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to evolve and find his own language.

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♪ Drone music ♪

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He's such an articulate

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intellectual,

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such an articulate scholar that, uh,

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it's not this, you know,

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there's no wonder that today

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Rothko is talking to us

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much better than anybody else.

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(hammering)

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(inaudible chatter)

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I don't know if it's this one.

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I have to check the room number: 43264.

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43264.

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(drilling)

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I've arranged the exhibition in two ways.

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The reason is that during the preparations
I often came across people saying:

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"Rothko? That's emotion."

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That is not my usual approach.

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My initial approach is always that
I want to understand something.

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And that does not exclude emotion. On the contrary.

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I think that art is where those two connect.

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Most people think the two are incompatible
and cannot be brought together.

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But precisely in art they come together.
I've tried to show that in the exhibition.

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By saying bluntly: If you walk straight
on, you will understand something.

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If you prefer an emotional experience, turn left.

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♪ somber music ♪

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"Art is an adventure

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into an unknown world,

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which can be explored only by those willing

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to take the risks."

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"I'm not an abstractionist,

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I'm not interested in the relationship

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of color or form or anything else.

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I'm interested only in expressing

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basic human emotions;

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tragedy, ecstasy,

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doom, and so on.

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And the fact that lots of people

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break down and cry when confronted

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with my pictures shows that I can

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communicate those basic human emotions.

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The people who weep before my pictures

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are having the same religious experience I had

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when I painted them.

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And if you are moved only by their color,

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"then you miss the point."

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♪ somber music ♪

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♪

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"I quarrel with surrealist and abstract art

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only as one quarrels with his father and mother,

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recognizing the inevitability

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and functions of my roots,

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but insistent upon my dissensions.

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I am both them and a new integral

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"completely independent of them."

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♪

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These three paintings here...

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...off the top of my head 1946, 1948, 1949...

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...you see an enormously chaotic colour mixture...

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...you can't recognize:

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It's not abstract, it's not
expressionist or geometric...

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What is it? Clouds? Indeterminate.

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But it crystallizes in this direction.

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Until there you arrive at something...

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...that is a reduction of the
imagery to make it more clear.

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He wants direct communication.

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That's too complex for communication. This is clear.

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♪ drone music ♪

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"I'm not a mystic.

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A prophet, perhaps.

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But I don't prophesy woes to come.

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I just paint the woes already here."

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The height is wonderful, isn't it?

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He must've loved that.

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Hmm.

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We are wondering if this is Mark Rothko's paint?

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I don't know, it's hard to say, isn't it?

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I mean, you can't say definitively.

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I'm sure there have been other painters in here.

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This certainly has a feel of it,

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but it seems like a lot of it right there.

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It doesn't seem...

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I think there's no reason to think

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there isn't some of Rothko's paint,

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but one can't say with any...

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Any surety.

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I don't even know what it tells us that much, really.

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I mean, we know he had the paintings on pulleys,

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we know they were on the... stretched,

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we know that they were on the wall.

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Um...

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There's a lot of white.

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I don't think that...

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(laughs)

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-Too much white. -Yeah.

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I don't know, a floor is a history.

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I mean, it's...

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it tells so much about what's happened

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in this space as opposed

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to who necessarily was in the space.

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It was more about the space, I think,

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than the painter.

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In that regard, it's kind of wonderful.

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Yeah, hm.

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♪ Drone music ♪

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(cars passing)

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What is the sadness of life, sir?

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Excuse me?

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What is the sadness of life?

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Not having a mother.

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You know?

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Mom left me when I was two,

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my father left me when I was 12, you know?

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That's what hurts, you know?

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When I see family, you know,

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sometimes I cry because...

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I wish that was me, you know?

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It hurts real bad.

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You know?

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But that's life, you know?

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In America you have accidental babies,

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you have trick babies, sex offender babies,

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abused babies, adopted babies,

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mommy's babies, and daddy's maybes.

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You know?

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I don't know what ground I'm on.

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You know?

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♪ Drone music ♪

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What does this one cost? - I don't know by heart.

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This is from a period...

245
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...a transitional period to his
classical period. The last step.

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1949.

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And they are usually in the order of...

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...eight or nine million.

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But there is one with yet another zero.

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(laughs)

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Which one? - It's not yet unpacked.

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If you look at the back...

253
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...how...

254
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...the canvas was stapled on...

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...it's all very fragile.

256
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It shows that he was not a professional painter.

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He was a philosopher...

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...who used canvas and colour
to express philosophical thought.

259
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What are you looking at?

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A first impression. Is there anything odd?

261
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I don't know the painting but I
can see there's no big scratch on it.

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But the courier is coming
to take a more specific look.

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And then we both sign for approval.

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♪ somber music ♪

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"The recipe for a work of art,

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its ingredients, how to make it,

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the formula.

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Number one:

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there must be a clear

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preoccupation with death.

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Number two:

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sensuality.

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It is a lustful relationship

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to things that exist.

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Number three:

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tension,

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either conflict or curbed desire.

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Number four:

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irony.

280
00:24:25,564 --> 00:24:29,233
This is a modern ingredient.

281
00:24:29,277 --> 00:24:30,359
Number five:

282
00:24:30,403 --> 00:24:32,236
wit and play

283
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,863
for the human element.

284
00:24:34,907 --> 00:24:36,198
Number six:

285
00:24:36,242 --> 00:24:39,076
the ephemeral and chance,

286
00:24:39,120 --> 00:24:41,912
also for the human element.

287
00:24:41,956 --> 00:24:43,831
And number seven:

288
00:24:43,874 --> 00:24:45,082
hope.

289
00:24:45,126 --> 00:24:46,041
Ten percent.

290
00:24:46,085 --> 00:24:49,336
Just enough to make the tragic concept

291
00:24:49,380 --> 00:24:51,632
"more endurable."

292
00:24:53,134 --> 00:24:55,843
I think this is, uh, an example of my father's

293
00:24:55,886 --> 00:24:56,969
great love of irony.

294
00:24:57,013 --> 00:24:59,221
I think if we take him too seriously,

295
00:24:59,265 --> 00:25:00,889
we are in trouble.

296
00:25:00,933 --> 00:25:03,519
(cityscape sounds)

297
00:25:18,743 --> 00:25:20,784
Painting, for him, was a way

298
00:25:20,828 --> 00:25:22,536
to address the people.

299
00:25:22,580 --> 00:25:23,912
It was a social statement.

300
00:25:23,956 --> 00:25:25,956
It was a way of finding

301
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:27,249
his identity

302
00:25:27,293 --> 00:25:30,169
in the American society.

303
00:25:30,212 --> 00:25:35,090
It was a way of stating that the artist

304
00:25:35,134 --> 00:25:37,468
has a role in society.

305
00:25:37,511 --> 00:25:39,553
It was not the case in the United States.

306
00:25:39,597 --> 00:25:40,763
The United States was a country

307
00:25:40,806 --> 00:25:45,809
where the artist was very much marginalized.

308
00:25:45,853 --> 00:25:48,937
So, Rothko decided to step in

309
00:25:48,981 --> 00:25:50,481
and to...

310
00:25:50,524 --> 00:25:55,152
to assert what he had to say is true:

311
00:25:55,196 --> 00:25:56,989
his art.

312
00:26:01,619 --> 00:26:08,042
♪ Drone music ♪

313
00:27:07,518 --> 00:27:10,269
"After I had been at work for some time,

314
00:27:10,313 --> 00:27:14,064
I realized that I was much
influenced subconsciously

315
00:27:14,108 --> 00:27:16,567
by Michelangelo's walls in the staircase

316
00:27:16,611 --> 00:27:19,361
of the Medici Library in Florence.

317
00:27:19,405 --> 00:27:22,906
He achieved just the kind of feeling I'm after.

318
00:27:22,950 --> 00:27:24,158
He makes the viewers feel

319
00:27:24,201 --> 00:27:25,826
that they are trapped in a room

320
00:27:25,870 --> 00:27:29,163
where all the doors and windows are bricked up,

321
00:27:29,206 --> 00:27:30,330
so that all they can do

322
00:27:30,374 --> 00:27:33,625
"is butt their heads forever to the wall."

323
00:27:33,669 --> 00:27:40,176
♪ drone music ♪

324
00:27:48,851 --> 00:27:50,978
(pebbles clanking)

325
00:28:12,875 --> 00:28:15,044
(pebbles rolling)

326
00:28:39,593 --> 00:28:46,241
You could say that Rothko is
after a one-to-one confrontation.

327
00:28:47,023 --> 00:28:50,672
He more or less excluded the space around it.

328
00:28:50,803 --> 00:28:55,712
It was all about the physical
dialogue with the canvas.

329
00:28:55,842 --> 00:29:00,968
But well, a body is always in
space and you can't entirely ignore it.

330
00:29:01,099 --> 00:29:08,746
When he was commissioned to do a series
of paintings for a Manhattan restaurant...

331
00:29:08,876 --> 00:29:11,483
...a luxury restaurant...

332
00:29:12,742 --> 00:29:18,043
...he was confronted with a novel situation.

333
00:29:18,174 --> 00:29:22,736
On the one hand he found it very fascinating...

334
00:29:22,822 --> 00:29:29,035
...to be allowed to use the whole
room, to involve the whole space...

335
00:29:29,165 --> 00:29:34,075
...but he doubted whether a luxury
restaurant was the right space.

336
00:29:46,501 --> 00:29:52,670
It kept nagging at him and he didn't solve the dilemma.

337
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:59,534
He needed a break and went
with his wife and daughter to Italy...

338
00:29:59,664 --> 00:30:04,705
...where he visited many places
that featured 'art on location'.

339
00:30:04,835 --> 00:30:07,355
Also purpose-built locations.

340
00:30:07,745 --> 00:30:12,612
Especially the monastery
cells in the St Mark in Florence.

341
00:30:13,263 --> 00:30:16,435
He went there...

342
00:30:16,652 --> 00:30:19,171
...and the situation there is as follows.

343
00:30:19,780 --> 00:30:22,778
In a small cell for a monk...

344
00:30:22,908 --> 00:30:27,600
...there's a fresco by Fra Angelico
on the short wall, made for the monk.

345
00:30:27,731 --> 00:30:30,955
He can develop a relationship with it.

346
00:30:31,013 --> 00:30:32,014
♪ drone music ♪

347
00:30:53,409 --> 00:30:59,924
It's the perfect participation that
Rothko envisaged for his paintings.

348
00:31:00,055 --> 00:31:03,139
And when he came back...

349
00:31:03,269 --> 00:31:07,398
...he was pained by the
difference with the luxury restaurant.

350
00:31:07,528 --> 00:31:11,264
I think that's why he returned the commission.

351
00:31:11,568 --> 00:31:15,826
It's the famous failed Seagram commission.

352
00:31:15,956 --> 00:31:22,038
But it was the first step in a whole development...

353
00:31:22,170 --> 00:31:27,209
...of making works for specific locations.

354
00:31:29,238 --> 00:31:35,870
♪ drone music ♪

355
00:32:06,442 --> 00:32:08,484
"Since my pictures are large,

356
00:32:08,527 --> 00:32:10,402
colorful and unframed,

357
00:32:10,446 --> 00:32:13,447
and since museum walls are usually immense

358
00:32:13,491 --> 00:32:14,740
and formidable,

359
00:32:14,784 --> 00:32:16,533
there is the danger that the pictures

360
00:32:16,577 --> 00:32:19,328
relate themselves as decorative areas

361
00:32:19,372 --> 00:32:20,871
to the wall.

362
00:32:20,915 --> 00:32:23,290
This would be a distortion of their meaning.

363
00:32:23,334 --> 00:32:26,043
Since the pictures are intimate and intense,

364
00:32:26,087 --> 00:32:29,129
and have been painted in a scale of normal living

365
00:32:29,173 --> 00:32:32,466
"rather than an institutional scale."

366
00:32:32,510 --> 00:32:33,135
♪

367
00:32:47,454 --> 00:32:52,016
The Association of Friends of
Harvard University got a new building.

368
00:32:52,449 --> 00:32:55,406
He made five paintings for it.

369
00:32:55,491 --> 00:32:58,924
He wanted to show that it was possible:

370
00:32:59,054 --> 00:33:03,269
To create a space with paintings,
to create a sanctified location...

371
00:33:03,399 --> 00:33:08,656
...without the paintings
being degraded to decorations.

372
00:33:08,787 --> 00:33:16,650
So he worked on those, and created
paintings for this specific space.

373
00:33:16,780 --> 00:33:19,822
There was also a reception room.

374
00:33:20,951 --> 00:33:25,296
But in that case the problem was...

375
00:33:26,252 --> 00:33:29,336
...that the canvases were enormous...

376
00:33:29,467 --> 00:33:34,767
...wall-covering and therefore called 'murals'.

377
00:33:34,897 --> 00:33:39,459
The other walls had gigantic windows.

378
00:33:39,589 --> 00:33:44,021
The pigment he had used was highly light-sensitive...

379
00:33:44,151 --> 00:33:46,541
...and the sun was shining all day.

380
00:33:46,670 --> 00:33:51,884
And some years after his death
the paintings had to be removed,

381
00:33:52,015 --> 00:33:56,968
In that sense it also failed. The
installation doesn't exist anymore.

382
00:33:59,055 --> 00:34:04,977
♪ violin music ♪

383
00:34:42,348 --> 00:34:45,140
"When I went to Europe and saw the old masters,

384
00:34:45,184 --> 00:34:49,770
I was involved with the credibility of the drama.

385
00:34:49,814 --> 00:34:53,023
Would Christ on the cross, if he opened his eyes,

386
00:34:53,067 --> 00:34:55,025
believe the spectators?"

387
00:34:55,069 --> 00:34:58,445
♪

388
00:34:58,489 --> 00:35:00,280
"I think that small pictures,

389
00:35:00,324 --> 00:35:01,657
since the Renaissance,

390
00:35:01,701 --> 00:35:03,075
are like novels.

391
00:35:03,119 --> 00:35:04,576
Large pictures are like dramas

392
00:35:04,620 --> 00:35:06,245
in which one participates

393
00:35:06,289 --> 00:35:08,122
"in a direct way."

394
00:35:08,165 --> 00:35:08,791
♪

395
00:35:13,337 --> 00:35:16,171
Painting is, in fact, the subject.

396
00:35:16,215 --> 00:35:18,799
Here, he... he's almost a sculpture.

397
00:35:18,843 --> 00:35:19,842
Mm-hmm, yeah.

398
00:35:19,885 --> 00:35:21,343
And what Rembrandt did, and especially

399
00:35:21,387 --> 00:35:24,346
this whole part, but... but this...

400
00:35:24,390 --> 00:35:25,264
This is blurred.

401
00:35:25,308 --> 00:35:26,974
This is abstract painting.

402
00:35:27,018 --> 00:35:27,808
And also this.

403
00:35:27,852 --> 00:35:30,310
I mean, this... this color red,

404
00:35:30,354 --> 00:35:31,770
it's (inaudible word).

405
00:35:31,814 --> 00:35:32,896
It's... it's, I mean, of course,

406
00:35:32,940 --> 00:35:35,107
paint... yeah, the face is very nice,

407
00:35:35,151 --> 00:35:36,984
but he did many paintings.

408
00:35:37,028 --> 00:35:39,486
But this... this has never been done.

409
00:35:39,530 --> 00:35:41,613
So, basically, it's not so much

410
00:35:41,657 --> 00:35:43,449
the faces, which he's interested in,

411
00:35:43,492 --> 00:35:46,660
but the figures and the experimentation of light.

412
00:35:46,704 --> 00:35:49,038
Here we look at invention in art.

413
00:35:49,081 --> 00:35:51,373
And then Rothko comes close.

414
00:35:51,417 --> 00:35:55,794
Rothko wrote in 1940 that Rembrandt

415
00:35:55,838 --> 00:35:58,797
was interested in the plasticity of light.

416
00:35:58,841 --> 00:35:59,631
-Here. -Yeah.

417
00:35:59,675 --> 00:36:02,509
And Rothko reinvented himself in 1940

418
00:36:02,553 --> 00:36:05,596
when he wrote a book called The Artist's Reality

419
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:07,264
where he's looking at all the figures.

420
00:36:07,308 --> 00:36:09,641
He stops painting for one whole year

421
00:36:09,685 --> 00:36:11,143
and he write a book.

422
00:36:11,187 --> 00:36:12,394
And in this book he goes through

423
00:36:12,438 --> 00:36:14,563
all the big figures of the past;

424
00:36:14,607 --> 00:36:17,107
philosophers, writers,

425
00:36:17,151 --> 00:36:18,984
musicians, and artists.

426
00:36:19,028 --> 00:36:22,321
And he talks about Rembrandt a lot,

427
00:36:22,365 --> 00:36:24,365
especially about this painting

428
00:36:24,408 --> 00:36:27,117
and the plasticity of light.

429
00:36:27,161 --> 00:36:29,747
(echoed chatter)

430
00:36:32,708 --> 00:36:34,917
"Rembrandt discovered that his patrons

431
00:36:34,961 --> 00:36:37,044
were not interested in his plastic

432
00:36:37,088 --> 00:36:38,712
preoccupations with light,

433
00:36:38,756 --> 00:36:42,091
and that they preferred
the obvious illustrative gifts

434
00:36:42,134 --> 00:36:45,805
"of his contemporaries and followers."

435
00:36:52,144 --> 00:36:55,354
"Rembrandt and Rothko."

436
00:36:55,398 --> 00:36:56,689
Rothko would say to a friend,

437
00:36:56,732 --> 00:36:59,900
then pause, smile, and say,

438
00:36:59,944 --> 00:37:04,238
"Rothko and Rembrandt."

439
00:37:04,282 --> 00:37:05,009
I'm gonna add...

440
00:37:05,053 --> 00:37:06,699
I'm gonna add one from the family.

441
00:37:06,742 --> 00:37:07,741
This is not written anywhere,

442
00:37:07,785 --> 00:37:11,120
but this... this is what he said in the house.

443
00:37:11,163 --> 00:37:15,040
"Mozart, Matisse, and Mark."

444
00:37:15,084 --> 00:37:18,836
That's the follow-up to "Rothko and Rembrandt."

445
00:37:18,879 --> 00:37:22,506
No, he didn't turn it around as far as I know.

446
00:37:22,550 --> 00:37:25,509
I don't think anyone could go before Mozart.

447
00:37:25,553 --> 00:37:30,474
(pebbles clanking)

448
00:37:54,248 --> 00:37:57,124
"When you looked at Matisse's Red Studio,

449
00:37:57,168 --> 00:37:58,751
you became that color.

450
00:37:58,794 --> 00:38:01,879
You became totally saturated with it."

451
00:38:01,922 --> 00:38:07,303
♪ drone music ♪

452
00:38:22,944 --> 00:38:31,243
(cityscape sounds)

453
00:39:04,527 --> 00:39:07,277
"Art necessarily reflects the artist's

454
00:39:07,321 --> 00:39:10,032
understanding of his times.

455
00:39:14,996 --> 00:39:18,080
We have wiped the slate clean.

456
00:39:18,124 --> 00:39:19,206
We started new.

457
00:39:19,250 --> 00:39:20,457
A new land.

458
00:39:20,501 --> 00:39:21,792
We have got to forget

459
00:39:21,836 --> 00:39:24,005
"what the old master's did."

460
00:39:29,593 --> 00:39:32,555
(emergency sirens in distance)

461
00:39:45,103 --> 00:39:51,967
His third installation was a commission by
a married couple of collectors in Houston.

462
00:39:52,097 --> 00:39:55,702
The De Menil couple.

463
00:39:56,442 --> 00:40:04,002
People had long agreed that Rothko's
work would look best in a chapel.

464
00:40:05,652 --> 00:40:13,473
They asked him to paint for a chapel
specifically built for this purpose.

465
00:40:13,603 --> 00:40:17,427
He was totally in control there.

466
00:40:17,557 --> 00:40:22,249
That is the famous Rothko chapel in Houston.

467
00:40:23,553 --> 00:40:26,811
He had rented a studio that was large enough...

468
00:40:26,941 --> 00:40:34,154
...to make a mock-up of the chapel and paint
in the circumstances the work was meant for.

469
00:40:34,221 --> 00:40:39,267
♪ somber music ♪

470
00:40:58,224 --> 00:41:00,557
"I've wanted to paint my own size.

471
00:41:00,601 --> 00:41:04,269
I wanted to recognize myself in my work.

472
00:41:04,313 --> 00:41:06,983
Then I realized it's completed."

473
00:41:15,157 --> 00:41:18,617
His project was not painting paintings,

474
00:41:18,661 --> 00:41:23,247
his project was to create environments.

475
00:41:23,291 --> 00:41:26,875
His project was to reinvent

476
00:41:26,919 --> 00:41:30,629
a relationship between the public

477
00:41:30,673 --> 00:41:32,256
and his art.

478
00:41:32,300 --> 00:41:33,632
And how would it be?

479
00:41:33,676 --> 00:41:37,177
It would be like theater.

480
00:41:37,221 --> 00:41:41,473
He wanted the viewer to step into the painting.

481
00:41:41,517 --> 00:41:43,100
He wanted the paintings to be...

482
00:41:43,144 --> 00:41:46,520
Not positioned low, but... high, but low.

483
00:41:46,564 --> 00:41:49,273
He wanted them not to be on a white wall,

484
00:41:49,317 --> 00:41:51,900
but on an off-white wall.

485
00:41:51,944 --> 00:41:54,486
He wanted them not to be lighted,

486
00:41:54,530 --> 00:41:57,906
but very in the shadow.

487
00:41:57,950 --> 00:42:00,117
And he didn't want one painting,

488
00:42:00,161 --> 00:42:01,577
but a whole room.

489
00:42:01,621 --> 00:42:05,581
He wanted the audience to be surrounded by the art.

490
00:42:05,625 --> 00:42:06,331
Why?

491
00:42:06,375 --> 00:42:08,542
Because what he aimed at

492
00:42:08,586 --> 00:42:11,545
was not consumption of art,

493
00:42:11,589 --> 00:42:15,340
he wanted a dialogue, an interaction,

494
00:42:15,384 --> 00:42:16,717
a spiritual dimension,

495
00:42:16,761 --> 00:42:19,511
something much more complex

496
00:42:19,555 --> 00:42:23,682
than, you know, than watching a painting.

497
00:42:23,726 --> 00:42:25,517
He wanted, uh,

498
00:42:25,561 --> 00:42:30,230
basically, he thought that art could

499
00:42:30,274 --> 00:42:34,860
transform, um, the public.

500
00:42:34,904 --> 00:42:41,452
♪ Drone music ♪

501
00:42:45,498 --> 00:42:46,499
♪ piano music ♪

502
00:42:59,887 --> 00:43:02,846
"If I must place my trust somewhere,

503
00:43:02,890 --> 00:43:04,848
I would invest it in the psyche

504
00:43:04,892 --> 00:43:06,558
of sensitive observers

505
00:43:06,602 --> 00:43:08,519
who are free of the conventions

506
00:43:08,562 --> 00:43:10,896
of understanding.

507
00:43:10,940 --> 00:43:12,690
I would have no apprehensions

508
00:43:12,733 --> 00:43:14,983
about the use they would make of these pictures

509
00:43:15,027 --> 00:43:17,986
for the needs of their own spirits,

510
00:43:18,030 --> 00:43:21,031
for if there is both need and spirit,

511
00:43:21,075 --> 00:43:24,370
"there is bound to be a real transaction."

512
00:43:49,228 --> 00:43:53,272
How is it to restore a Rothko?

513
00:43:53,316 --> 00:43:55,107
Well...

514
00:43:55,151 --> 00:43:56,025
it's complicated.

515
00:43:56,068 --> 00:43:58,777
I think to restore any work of art

516
00:43:58,821 --> 00:43:59,549
is complicated.

517
00:43:59,593 --> 00:44:05,034
Um, for a non, uh, representational work of art,

518
00:44:05,077 --> 00:44:06,326
an abstract work of art,

519
00:44:06,370 --> 00:44:08,704
it's even more difficult because we don't have

520
00:44:08,748 --> 00:44:12,708
any representational clues to go by.

521
00:44:12,752 --> 00:44:17,337
So, we are very much in need of understanding

522
00:44:17,381 --> 00:44:19,548
the artist's manipulation of material

523
00:44:19,592 --> 00:44:21,091
for visual effect.

524
00:44:21,135 --> 00:44:21,842
And that takes time,

525
00:44:21,886 --> 00:44:24,511
that's not something that you immediately see

526
00:44:24,555 --> 00:44:26,472
when you look at a work of art.

527
00:44:26,515 --> 00:44:28,474
So, in the case of Rothko,

528
00:44:28,517 --> 00:44:30,100
because it's so sophisticated,

529
00:44:30,144 --> 00:44:30,893
it's so many layers,

530
00:44:30,937 --> 00:44:34,980
it's so much building up of paint over time,

531
00:44:35,024 --> 00:44:37,691
um, it takes that amount of time as well

532
00:44:37,735 --> 00:44:39,234
to understand what the artist

533
00:44:39,278 --> 00:44:41,403
is trying to achieve.

534
00:44:41,447 --> 00:44:48,245
♪ Somber music ♪

535
00:46:11,495 --> 00:46:13,912
Do you think that the paintings

536
00:46:13,956 --> 00:46:14,642
we see in Houston,

537
00:46:14,686 --> 00:46:17,833
that we see them now with the light

538
00:46:17,877 --> 00:46:21,045
Rothko wishes?

539
00:46:21,088 --> 00:46:25,174
Um, I think that's a hard question to answer.

540
00:46:25,217 --> 00:46:28,677
I would say that the question of the light

541
00:46:28,721 --> 00:46:31,555
is the overriding question that haunts

542
00:46:31,599 --> 00:46:36,018
those of us concerned with the Rothko Chapel.

543
00:46:36,062 --> 00:46:38,771
It never seemed to be right.

544
00:46:38,814 --> 00:46:41,815
And so, um, it's something

545
00:46:41,859 --> 00:46:44,860
that will always be on our minds

546
00:46:44,904 --> 00:46:49,114
of how to improve it, resolve it, make...

547
00:46:49,158 --> 00:46:51,658
Make peace with it in someway.

548
00:46:51,702 --> 00:46:54,036
Um, I don't... so I can't say

549
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:55,204
that you're seeing the paintings

550
00:46:55,247 --> 00:46:57,831
exactly the way Rothko would've intended,

551
00:46:57,875 --> 00:47:01,919
but what I can say is that you will have

552
00:47:01,963 --> 00:47:06,006
a very, um, personal and meditative,

553
00:47:06,050 --> 00:47:09,551
I think, experience in the chapel

554
00:47:09,595 --> 00:47:10,636
from the light.

555
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:13,639
Um, the light changes in Houston.

556
00:47:13,683 --> 00:47:14,932
Well, everywhere it changes,

557
00:47:14,976 --> 00:47:17,518
but because it's all natural light,

558
00:47:17,561 --> 00:47:20,562
if you sit there you'll see clouds go by,

559
00:47:20,606 --> 00:47:22,606
you'll feel the change of light,

560
00:47:22,650 --> 00:47:26,362
and the paintings respond in that way.

561
00:47:28,656 --> 00:47:34,578
♪ Somber music ♪

562
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:15,993
"I would like to say to those

563
00:48:16,037 --> 00:48:18,328
who think of my pictures as serene

564
00:48:18,372 --> 00:48:22,041
that I have imprisoned the most utter violence

565
00:48:22,084 --> 00:48:24,752
in every inch of their surface."

566
00:48:24,795 --> 00:48:30,176
♪ somber music ♪

567
00:49:23,187 --> 00:49:26,772
Bryan Robertson describes a moment

568
00:49:26,816 --> 00:49:29,108
in the Whitechapel Gallery with Rothko,

569
00:49:29,151 --> 00:49:31,985
together with Rothko when he left the place.

570
00:49:32,029 --> 00:49:34,988
He said, "My strongest personal memory"

571
00:49:35,032 --> 00:49:37,616
is of leaving the Whitechapel Gallery

572
00:49:37,660 --> 00:49:42,830
with Rothko late one winter afternoon

573
00:49:42,873 --> 00:49:46,834
when the daylight had practically gone.

574
00:49:46,877 --> 00:49:51,130
He asked me to switch all the lights off

575
00:49:51,173 --> 00:49:53,090
everywhere.

576
00:49:53,134 --> 00:49:55,676
And suddenly Rothko's color

577
00:49:55,720 --> 00:49:58,554
made its own light.

578
00:49:58,597 --> 00:50:04,101
The effect once the retina had adjusted itself

579
00:50:04,145 --> 00:50:06,353
was unforgettable.

580
00:50:06,397 --> 00:50:08,731
Smoldering, and blazing,

581
00:50:08,774 --> 00:50:13,902
and glowing softly from the walls.

582
00:50:13,946 --> 00:50:18,073
Color in the darkness.

583
00:50:18,117 --> 00:50:20,200
We stood there a long time

584
00:50:20,244 --> 00:50:24,038
and I wished everyone could have seen the world

585
00:50:24,081 --> 00:50:29,668
Rothko had made in those perfect conditions,

586
00:50:29,712 --> 00:50:33,088
radiating its own energy

587
00:50:33,132 --> 00:50:36,216
and uncorrected by artifice

588
00:50:36,260 --> 00:50:38,469
"or the marketplace."

589
00:50:38,512 --> 00:50:40,848
I think it's wonderful.

590
00:50:48,189 --> 00:50:54,278
♪ Drone music ♪

591
00:51:35,319 --> 00:51:38,737
It was a custom to equate the blackness

592
00:51:38,781 --> 00:51:42,574
and the sharpness of the Rothko Chapel paintings

593
00:51:42,618 --> 00:51:45,953
with the artist's despair.

594
00:51:45,997 --> 00:51:47,621
I never felt that.

595
00:51:47,665 --> 00:51:50,207
I never did, and I still don't.

596
00:51:50,251 --> 00:51:54,044
I truly believe that the paintings...

597
00:51:54,088 --> 00:51:55,087
Well, there are two things.

598
00:51:55,131 --> 00:51:56,338
But I truly believe that the paintings

599
00:51:56,382 --> 00:52:02,177
were a... a major step forward for him, technically.

600
00:52:02,221 --> 00:52:05,013
In eliminating color, the one feature

601
00:52:05,057 --> 00:52:07,224
for which he was best known,

602
00:52:07,268 --> 00:52:09,560
and he had... his classic paintings

603
00:52:09,604 --> 00:52:11,228
he was a master of,

604
00:52:11,272 --> 00:52:12,813
he kind of upped the bar

605
00:52:12,857 --> 00:52:15,941
and went into creating paintings

606
00:52:15,985 --> 00:52:17,651
without a lot of color.

607
00:52:17,695 --> 00:52:20,112
He also was so well-known, as you know,

608
00:52:20,156 --> 00:52:22,197
in his classic work for these wonderful

609
00:52:22,241 --> 00:52:26,118
diaphanous edges around his forms.

610
00:52:26,162 --> 00:52:29,455
In the Chapel paintings he does these very tight,

611
00:52:29,498 --> 00:52:31,874
straight, taped even,

612
00:52:31,917 --> 00:52:34,126
forms, edges.

613
00:52:34,170 --> 00:52:36,795
He's just going into something very different,

614
00:52:36,839 --> 00:52:38,589
and I think that's a very hard,

615
00:52:38,633 --> 00:52:39,319
hard thing to do.

616
00:52:39,362 --> 00:52:40,966
I think it was a natural progression

617
00:52:41,010 --> 00:52:42,801
of where he was going,

618
00:52:42,845 --> 00:52:44,011
but I do not think...

619
00:52:44,055 --> 00:52:46,972
And I wish it would be dispelled forever...

620
00:52:47,016 --> 00:52:48,474
This association with that

621
00:52:48,517 --> 00:52:49,641
with his final death.

622
00:52:49,685 --> 00:52:52,603
I do not think that that...

623
00:52:52,647 --> 00:52:54,521
That makes sense at all.

624
00:52:54,565 --> 00:53:00,696
♪ Drone music ♪

625
00:53:17,505 --> 00:53:20,506
"There is more power in telling little

626
00:53:20,549 --> 00:53:22,966
than in telling all.

627
00:53:23,010 --> 00:53:25,803
Silence is so accurate."

628
00:53:25,846 --> 00:53:26,472
♪

629
00:53:57,128 --> 00:53:58,210
The color of my voice?

630
00:53:58,254 --> 00:53:59,253
What color?

631
00:53:59,297 --> 00:54:00,629
Um, I don't know,

632
00:54:00,673 --> 00:54:04,133
I think dark brown.

633
00:54:04,176 --> 00:54:06,385
His voice was a little softer, I think.

634
00:54:06,429 --> 00:54:07,761
A little, a little rounder

635
00:54:07,805 --> 00:54:08,637
around the edges.

636
00:54:08,681 --> 00:54:11,390
He has a little bit more red in it.

637
00:54:11,434 --> 00:54:12,059
♪